Interview with Jewel Ham

Interview with Jewel Ham Transcript

So, tell us about what happened with Spotify from your perspective.

I had an internship there in summer 2019 and I was a digital design intern. I worked with formatting and general design, but they decided it would be good if I did an intern project. The project they assigned me was to make "Wrapped" more Gen Z oriented. So, that's what I did... I just felt like it shouldn't be something that's just in house, for Spotify, it would be something that's way more shareable, way more interactive. It got the opportunity for the artists and the listener to get more exposure, more share power, and more interaction.

Tell us about the viral tweet. What made you tweet it, what was it like when it blew up, and do you have any regrets about it?

The tweet going viral was absolutely insane. I had no idea it was going to happen. Also, I feel like it opened the door for a lot of people to make a lot of assumptions of where I was coming from or what I was trying to say. So, I felt like I needed to speak further when the opportunity presented itself about what I was trying to convey. But first things first, I have no followers on Twitter - I have 1300 followers on Twitter, which I feel like is pretty average for my age group, you know? When I tweeted it initially, it was just a joke among friends, really, like, most of my friends were already familiar with the fact... And I would get a lot of interactions on my Tweets, but that was people that I actually really know, so I wasn't really trying to make any type of statement, you know? When I tweeted it, I was really not trying to make some type of statement because I knew, legally, that they owned my work. I've worked corporate, so it wasn't a shock to me that they had used the idea. You know, it was something that I was like, that's how you guys move. But it wasn't really like I was trying to come out like, "Run me my check," it was more like, "Yeah, this happened, y'all remember that? That's crazy."

I feel like the word "invented" maybe got the wrong connotation, like, it made it sound like I was trying to say Wrapped as a whole belongs to me. But also, I didn't say that!

So we read the Refinery29 article. Spotify claims, quote, "Spotify is proud to provide young talent from all backgrounds with the opportunity to create, contribute, and learn alongside some of the best teams in the business. Since Spotify's Wrapped concept was first introduced in 2013, hundreds of employees have contributed ideas and creative concepts that have made the experience what it is today. While ideas generated during Spotify's internship program have on occasion informed campaigns and products, based on our internal review, that is not the case here with Spotify Wrapped. It's unfortunate that things have been characterized otherwise." We're just wondering if you have any response for that statement specifically.

I think two things from that quote. One is, in general, like I said, the tweet was not meant to go viral. But really, it's just, it was on observation alone. It was just, I remember my project, I see what y'all dropped, they look pretty similar. That was all I said. And then, I also wanna address that I feel like the statement only goes to take my point further. At the end of the day, the point is, so many young, especially Black and brown, but young in general, creatives that have never really been up in the industry, contribute so many ideas to these major mass media corporations, and then what is it for then? How do you characterize what that would look as a financial return? And Spotify is saying that occasionally they have contributed - okay! Then those "occasional" interns - what did they get? I saw a lot of people saying, "Well, what do you expect? That's how corporations work." But the thing is, me personally, I'm not pursuing a graphic design career, I really do work as a fine artist. And, when you're working as a fine artist, a music artist, or someone that's really in that field separately, separate from corporate spaces, you're getting the credit! It belongs to you! Your idea is yours, and that's how it would be celebrated and that's how it would be shared. And that's the model for creative work, so why does that not exist in a company? How come?

One of the points you made in your Refinery29 interview was that your issue with the whole thing isn't even personal. You said the Spotify workers and bosses were "cool people". You said in an Instagram post addressing your viral tweet that Spotify was "not the center of what you're trying to share." We think this is a super important point. It seems you're stressing that that's what makes it all the more harmful - that it's NOT just Spotify, it's every corporation exploiting your and others' labor, especially young people of color, and making all the profit. Is this what you were trying to say? (Does this speak to a larger problem about the exploitative workplace hierarchies in our system, in your opinion?)

Absolutely. And further, it kind of gets to this point of, as college students especially, getting your foot in the door, you think that that's what you're supposed to be doing, and you're sold this model, and you don't know better. You have no idea that there is an opposite. And getting fed that so young, getting conditioned to think that that's how you're supposed to approach things, you kind of don't have any room to think to yourself, "Wow. What value do I have? What value do my ideas have? What value could they bring to the community? You don't even think about that. You're trying to chase that one check, but really, that check is stationary. In comparison to what the company is getting in return, your check is completely stationary.

Because so often, we're just being exploited and manipulated. People act like what we're doing is just a product, but really, the whole thing is based on us. We're not just a piece of it, we're the whole damn thing. So, I really want young people to consider that, or even people who've been in the industry for a while, to really consider that system because at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, what is the end game? Let's say you continue to give this company your great ideas for on and on and years and years, okay, you got a raise or two, but, now this is a conglomerate. What do your pockets have to show for that? I think that's something we need to address as creatives, trying to find space in the professional world. Does that look like corporations changing how they work? Is that realistic, in the way capitalism is set up? Like, is that even something we can hope for? And if not, on the flip of that, how do we make it easier for people to see that working for themselves is something that is attainable AND sustainable?

Tell us about your art. We have a creative collective within Fourth Wall and we really appreciate the intrinsic value of art. What do you want people to know about your work?

I would say that my work really is about just being so often, and different forms of being, and sharing Black narratives - Black and brown narratives, to be honest, but more focused on Black narratives - sharing things that aren't often shared about us. Things that are overlooked, experiences and feelings that often we have to push down. And, even in the regular of that, the everyday in that, how does it feel to approach everyday life and deal with so much? How does it look, visually? But I also think that just being, and capturing Black folks just being, is a form of resistance. Because really, for so long, we've been conditioned to work, to ignore feelings, to just keep going. And we are so often a symbol of strength that we don't get to showcase any vulnerabilities, so I really try to capture that in my work. That is the content of my work, while I'm presenting it in a very strong, vibrant and colorful way, so people that might not necessarily be formally educated in art or have formal backgrounds in it, can still be captured by the narrative and can still be pulled in. So that way, my art isn't just in accessible spaces, but is full of accessible contact.

We saw on your Instagram feed you made an "abolish police" t-shirt. That's super dope! Do your politics often influence your art? Why did you choose to create a piece like that?

I think things like that are always going to be present in my work, because I think being Black, that's just inherent. Dealing with those things, it's a day to day experience, so it bleeds into my artwork naturally. I started selling shirts when I was a freshman in college, because I could put all this content, these ideas, these concepts on a shirt, but it would have a different price tag - an accessible price tag. I mean, there are definite times where I would not have been able to afford my own artwork. You know? And I still think it's real valuable and the message is important, so I wanted to be able to exist on everyone's price points. We can all afford a t-shirt, you got one on right now! It just kinda felt appropriate at the time, it felt natural.

So, it's pretty clear that your work being used by Spotify with zero compensation is a direct result of capitalist exploitation. The importance of art in the face of a ruthless system has always been understood, especially for Black people. Black thinkers and activists have long been advocating the need for art. In 1926 W.E.B. Du Bois wrote a whole essay (Criteria of Negro Art) about how Black art could be used to showcase Black humanity to white people, and be used as "positive propaganda" to advance the cause of Black liberation. Almost a century later, philosopher Cornel West is saying the same stuff - in an interview with Jacobin earlier this month he stressed that, quote, "And this is where the arts come in, brother. That we're at a moment now, where people will more and more look to artists to provide a certain kind of wind at the back for those trying to provide alternatives to the neoliberal status quo.

"See, it's in the arts that you get people who have been spit on, who organize themselves, sustain themselves year after year with hardly no money and produce things that take us to places we know not of. And that's just one small little example of the tremendous genius and talent of so-called everyday people. That's what democracy's all about. That's a threat. That's why they try to co-opt the music, co-opt the entertainers, co-opt the artists. What does art and music do? Bring folks together in a lot of different ways."

We were just wondering what you think of Mr. West's statement and if you have anything you'd change or add to his monologue.

If anything, I can just further agree. I think, for me, personally, art is a communal thing. It is about gathering, because Black creativity is so often based in gathering.... So often Black creativity comes out of trauma. So often, things that we've been able to create have been because we were given scraps. We could not have what other people had. Look at soul food, that's scraps. Look at people, they pull things out of nothing... it has a reach and a power that goes beyond anything that anything that anyone with a white face can really do. And that's why they try to shut it down. That's why they try to quiet us down. And I think that just representing - being an artist and being and doing it - is so powerful, because other people can see, "Huh. I can do that too... Me, too." I just think at the end of the day, all I can do is agree, because really it is that creativity that we have, that they try to steal from us, it's such an act of resistance within itself."

You've stressed repeatedly in the wake of your viral tweet for creatives - especially creatives who are people of color - to realize the value of their work. Is there any other advice you have for creative people who look at your story and lose hope or confidence they can succeed in creative industries?

I think that really, if anything, I just wanna encourage people to realize that, dang, if that idea had that much reach - if the TWEET about it had that much reach - imagine, if you moved independently, how much reach your idea could have. Because ultimately, you're gonna create for you and that's going to be so powerful. The more you find freedom in that, the more you can really ask yourself, "How can I create for my people? How can my art have a larger reach?" And, you get to see that return, and that's something that I feel like will never exist in a company nor a corporation.

And I'm not saying that people shouldn't do what they gotta do - 'cause here I am, doing what I gotta do. I understand! But, I think we just have to ask ourselves larger questions, and those larger questions involve us standing in our truth of our power. Why else do you think they looking for us? Why do you think they hiring out of HBCUs exclusively? Why do you think that? Hm.